Leveraging The Right Partnerships At The Local Level

A cop, a guitar company, and a public health analyst walk into a bar…and mount an opioid overdose first aid kit to the wall. We have covered the Training and Empowering Musicians to Prevent Overdose, or TEMPO, project before, specifically the effort to get these high tech naloxone kits called ONEboxes into easily accessible locations, where they may be treated no differently than a defibrillator - an essential first aid device for a modern establishment. The program was so immediately impactful it spread to Knoxville, where a life was saved within a week of the ONEbox installation, and more recently to Chattanooga. However, efforts seemed to have stalled in Nashville…until the right combination of partnerships at the city government level took the program to new heights that surprised everyone involved. My first guest this month is Benton McDonough, director of nightlife through the mayor’s office. It’s a newly created position intended to act as a liaison between business, government, and residents, which in a city like Nashville, seems as essential as the music itself. We’re coming out of the era of COVID, after all, when many businesses had gotten used to seeing local government as an enemy, when a lot of trust between the private and public sector has been lost. But this program shows that with the right policy, and more importantly, the right relationships, you can start to rebuild that trust. My second guest is Erin Evans, chair of the public health and safety committee on the Metro Nashville city council. During the course of my interview with Benton and other stakeholders in this program, it became abundantly clear that I needed to have her on this episode as well. After all, this is a situation where the legislative and executive branches of government are working together, and that teamwork is also a perfect illustration of why it is so critical to not overlook local government.Hosted and produced by Jeremy Kourvelas. Original music by Blind House.Learn more:TEMPO: www.tempomission.orgNashville Banner article on the story: nashvillebanner.com/2024/05/23/naloxone-use-downtown-nashville/SMART: smart.tennessee.edu LISTEN HERE: https://open.spotify.com/show/5qbzONIr0hlWxiQsPwkXHM

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

You're listening to the Smart Policy Podcast, a production of the University of Tennessee's Institute for Public Service. A cop, a guitar company, and a public health analyst walk into a bar and mount an opioid overdose first aid kit to the wall. We've covered the training and empowering musicians to prevent overdose or tempo project before. Specifically the effort to get these high-tech naloxone kits called one boxes into easily accessible locations where they may be treated no differently than a defibrillator, an essential first aid device for a modern establishment. The program was so immediately impactful that it spread to Knoxville, where, as in Nashville, a life was saved within a week of the OneBox installation, and more recently, into Chattanooga. However, efforts seemed to have stalled in Nashville until the right combination of partnerships at the city government level took the program to new heights that surprised everyone involved.

SPEAKER_02 1:08

Without even one of those pieces, you know, this may not have been successful.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

That's Benton McDonald, director of Nightlife through the mayor's office. It's a newly created position intended to act as a liaison between business, government, and residents, which in a city like Nashville seems as essential as the music itself. We're coming out of the era of COVID, after all, when many businesses had gotten used to seeing local government as an enemy, when a lot of trust between the private and public sector had been lost. But this program shows that with the right policy, and more importantly, the right relationships, you can start to rebuild that trust.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

At the local level, you cannot hide from anyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

That's Aaron Evans, chair of the Public Health and Safety Committee on the Metro Nashville City Council. During the course of my interview with Benton and other stakeholders, it became abundantly clear that I needed to have her on this episode as well. After all, this is a situation where the legislative and executive branches of government are working together. And that teamwork is also a perfect illustration of why it is so critical to not overlook local government.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Well, uh, first, thank thank you for having me on the on the show. I really, really do appreciate that. And I think this is a very important topic. But uh my name is uh Benton McDonough, and I'm the uh executive director of the Metro Beer Board and also the uh director of the mayor's office of nightlife for Metro Nashville.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

You know, our uh our mutual friend Trevor Henderson, our Middle Tennessee substance use response consultant, he uh sometimes refers to you as the nightmare. Is that your unofficial title?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Uh that that uh that is used in uh interchangeably. And uh depending upon uh your accent, it can uh it can come out a little differently sometimes. So some some people call me the nightmare. So I I like to tell them that you know sometimes that's uh that's a fitting title, but uh I've been called much worse, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

So well, uh homophones aside, it it made me think of Batman or or uh something like that. So what what exactly is this job like? It I mean, of course, it on its face, it makes a lot of sense. Nashville's a big uh tourist uh town. There there's a lot of shows happening there all the time, a lot of amazing attractions. Uh so that seems you know necessary to make a whole position for it.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Exactly. And it's hard to describe because it seems like over the I've been in the position now for about almost a year and a half. You know, it just seems like it's ever evolving. It it does have its original purpose, and I and I think that's a lot of what I focus on now is to basically be this liaison uh between uh the the visitors to our city and uh business owners, their uh their employees, the the residents and uh and metro government, and uh really tried to be a bridge between all of those entities. And so I say that it's ever evolving, but it it what I find myself doing really fits within those uh confines. And so I'm working on many different initiatives, you know, one of those being distributing Narcan. And it's been really fascinating to see how the job has evolved to include these different initiatives.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

You mentioned the distribution of naloxone into music venues. We've covered the Tempo program, or training and empowering musicians to prevent overdose on the show in our November 2023 episode with uh then director Dendy Jarrett of Gibson Gives, the philanthropic wing of Gibson Guitars. This has been going on from Gibson's perspective for a couple of years, uh I'd say a little bit before you entered your role. But how did you become aware of this? And uh uh what do you think changed?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Really was just by luck. Really, I was uh speaking with Aaron Evans, the council member here in Nashville, and she asked me if I knew um Trevor Henderson or Sergeant Mike Hotz, and she introduced us. We had a meeting over Zoom the next day, and within that weekend, we were starting to to put Narcan in the bars. And so it was really just you know a matter of of us at the the beer board in nightlife using our experience and our contacts with uh with the bar owners and and things of that nature to work with them. Those those relationships helped immensely, and so just reaching out to them and explaining the you know the situation and you know they they knew about the the issue with overdoses and and things like that. So it was really important to them. And you know, I was thinking about it the other day, and it's interesting that we have a lot of moving parts in this initiative, and each part is critical to the success of that initiative. And so, you know, we have Trevor and Mike who have been working on this for a few years and you know had challenges about getting traction on it. You know, we have Erica with Gibson Gibbs, who who's providing the kits to us so that we can install them free of charge to the businesses, and then we have council member Evans who you know really bridged it all together. And so without even one of those pieces, you know, that this may not have been successful.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

That's an interesting collection of partners, too. You have city councils, you have mayor's office, you have an extremely compassionate and dedicated police officer, you have the philanthropic wing of a major guitar brand. Right. And like you said, so many other people here, the business owners. Uh so um previously when we interviewed Dendy Jarrett, uh back when he was director of Gibson Gives, you mentioned Erica Crusoe and she now runs that. Uh, he spoke about the initial efforts of Tempo in Nashville, and it's an interesting conversation, but among the music venues themselves, there wasn't that much stigma to the idea of getting um an overdose reversal agent into music venues. It was more so just concerns over liability. We've replicated the program in Knoxville and in Chattanooga, and if there was any pushback, it was on a similar level. Uh liability was a problem, uh, concerns about perhaps public relations. Uh uh perhaps one venue didn't want to give the impression that this is where the overdoses happen. Even though, of course, as you and I both know, they're happening everywhere, just about.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Right. You know, there was an article recently in National Banner talking about how there was this initial push about 70 kits, but uh it wasn't until as they attribute it, it was this unique partnership between not just the original tempo partners and uh law enforcement, but also city government as well, that really increased this initiative. And now, I mean, you know, Sergeant Mike Hotz, he's doing a lot. I'm getting photos from him all the time now of uh uh yet another box in there, and the manager or the venue owner is standing there proud next to it. Uh, there has definitely been a shift. How much can you attribute this, do you think, to buy-in from local government?

SPEAKER_02 7:57

I think when you work on an initiative like this, I think the key to it is basically trying to remove any sort of obstacle that might prevent a business owner or bar owner, for instance, from saying no. I think it's taken time. And uh I just happened to come along at a time where Trevor and and Mike had worked really hard, you know, along with Gibson and Councilmember Evans. And so I reap the benefits of that by being able to provide my contacts and relationships that and partnerships that we've built over the years.

SPEAKER_01 8:25

You know, I hear that a lot, relationships and partnerships. Uh when I talk to most guests on the show, the connection between the mayor's office and city council seems like a really critical element here. And you don't always see that in cities. And you even within the same city where you do see it, there's no guarantee that within the next administration you might or the next city council elections. Things change all the time with public offices. Do you think there's something to that relationship of Nashville's government broadly uh that that might have played a role? Or is this just one of those issues that everybody happened to be in agreement on?

SPEAKER_02 9:00

You know, I I it's probably a little bit of both. I do have very good relationships with council members because you know they they have issues where a constituent is calling their office about something, you know, whether it's a noise issue or something like that. And I'm just always willing to uh to to reach out on behalf of the council member and see what what our office can do. And so I I think the benefit of that is that you build that trust and you build that relationship. So I've been very fortunate. They're they're working on the budget now, and there were several council members who saw the benefit of supporting the nightlife office. And so I was very, very appreciative that they want to see, you know, additional funding for our office because of doing things like like this, you know, whether it's the Narcan like we're talking about here or the safe bar training that that we have in Nashville as well to go towards public safety.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

So I'm glad you mentioned the safe bar training. Uh that I think is really very related. And and we can certainly go down that road. But I wanted to pull back and think it's not just your relationship with other parts of the government. I mean, you you play a crucial role in connecting with businesses, and there's clearly a lot of trust going both ways. And you spoke also about there being benefits to taxpayers. I can't help but think about the difference between this uh and related public health initiatives in contrast to, say, COVID. And we certainly don't have to unpack that. But it seems that there were several crucial differences there. And first and foremost, I mean, well, I I don't know, there really is a whole lot to unpack here. Uh I suppose I suppose the biggest thing here is huge agreement on what can be done and what should be done. And from businesses perspective, it didn't seem to be so much a top-down mandate and more of a how how would you describe the differences, I guess?

SPEAKER_02 10:50

You know, a lot of times I think government wants to to steer away from discussing that for obvious reasons. But uh COVID was actually, I think, a turning point in our relationships in a in a positive way with you know, some of the bars and some of the businesses, because uh one of the things that that we try to do, and this was prior to to my time as the director of Nightlife, this had more to do with the the beer board, uh, was that we were able to pass rules and local legislation very quickly to allow for delivery and curbside permits for uh for beer. And so people were able to stay open and still sell beer, which is where a lot of their uh their income comes from, and at a obviously at a lot of the bars and and restaurants, and that that alone really helped build the relationships that I have with a lot of the the bar owners. And that certainly, you know, laid the foundation for you know what what we're doing now with Safebar and with with the Narcan distribution.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

So trust is is definitely a huge factor.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Oh, very much so.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Would you have any advice for a city experiencing a rupture in that trust?

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Find the small areas that you can agree on and and that you can assist them with. And uh I think starting there is a is a really good point. You have to go into it with your eyes open and understand that you're gonna have really good days, you're gonna have really bad days, you're gonna have days that are right down the middle, that sort of thing. So as long as you're going into it with, you know, a realistic perspective, then uh I I think that will definitely be a good start.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

There were a couple of times that you mentioned in these initiatives the role of data. That is something that's definitely of interest here at Smart. And uh you've probably heard Trevor Henderson say the word data several times from our end. Uh oh yeah. What role does local data play? Uh, do you think? And and and and uh do you have any advice for say a smaller town that's considering any initiative in terms of how they might collect data?

SPEAKER_02 12:53

I I think data is is critical to what we do in in public service. I mean, I I think people want to know where their tax dollars are going and they want to know how it's being utilized. And and so any sort of data that that you can collect to show that your programming or your messaging is worthwhile or is making uh an impact, that's so critical. Um I I think as far as um you know a small town or or city that's thinking about you know data collection, I'm I'm obviously no expert, but I I would say just finding areas that you know that you want to track that you know where you want to see change, you know, I think collecting that that information and those data points is is critical to uh to showing your constituents that you know the service that you're providing is worthwhile is worth supporting and worth funding. It's something that you know we rely on a lot at the the beer board. And I can recall that when I, you know, started with nightlife, I you know, I started thinking about, you know, what sort of data can we collect? And and it really wasn't clear to me about how we do that until we started working on a lot of these initiatives and showing the the work that we're doing matters. And and so just in the responses that that I see from the from the public and also Metro Council and the way that that they've really supported our office has been so important and so critical. And um showing that data to to them as to why why it was a good choice to create this office has been so important to the creation and the evolution of our programming. So and I'm I'm I'm looking forward to what other data we can collect moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

So okay. So it's not only about data for identifying a problem, it's uh showing your effectiveness as well as justifying why people should continue to support any given initiative. Exactly. Yeah. So without the data, it's kind of hard to have anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

Um are there any frustrations you have when it comes to perhaps ignoring or or negatively portraying local government?

SPEAKER_02 14:56

You know, I I think sometimes, you know, people think that Metro doesn't care about this or or that because it's not something that's that's our main focus at at the time, but it doesn't mean that we don't care. You know, I think just reaching out to our office if you have any ideas on initiatives or any any sort of thing like that that you would like to see. Honestly, that's that's what happened in in all of these situations was that uh someone reached out to my office to see how how we could help. And uh, we were able to to really utilize the partnerships that we've built over the years to sort of move these things in the right direction. And so I I think it never hurts to reach out to see if there's anything that we can do to assist. I mean, that's that's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

You know, at the county level, that we've heard a lot of talk from and on other publications, other shows, what have you. Um, how do I know what's going on with my county with the opioid settlement funding? And the advice is always the same is to go to go to the meetings, go to the go to the county government meetings and try to see who who's got the spending. So it it sounds like the same issue that people just need to really embrace actually accessing their local government. And they they may not realize how accessible it is.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

Very much so. That's really the first step is just reaching out to let us know that something's actually going on. Because, you know, like people say you don't know what you don't know. So if I don't know that it that it's going on, then I I can't help you. And we may not always be able to uh reach the conclusion that individuals would like to see, but you know, we're always gonna try our our hardest to to create some balance between business owners and residents, and that's really the the job that I was put in here to do. So is to to be that liaison between metro government and uh the residents and business owners and visitors. So I feel like we're we're seeing a lot of that balance work well for um for the residents, but the time will tell.

unknown 16:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

No, but I I I I'm inclined to agree with the optimism, and it sounds like a very important responsibility. So I I thank you for doing it. And like like I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

You always have to be optimistic in a job like this.

unknown 17:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

That's very true. Well, Benton, uh, thank you very much for for joining me on the Smart Policy Podcast. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me, Jeremy. So again, that was Benton McDonough, the director of Nightlife for the City of Nashville, and also sometimes known as the Nightmare. And during the course of our conversation, it became abundantly clear that I needed to include Councilmember Aaron Evans on this episode as well, in order to better portray the picture of what effective local government can look like. Your name came up many times uh when I was speaking to the various stakeholders. Uh how did how did you get involved in this and what role did you play in uh moving the pieces along?

SPEAKER_00 17:59

So two years ago, when uh we were uh we actually went through a process of merging committees together, and that's when public health and safety came together for the first time. Um previously they were operated independently. And so I was chair two years ago of the committee with our first effort to kind of combine um areas of interest and focus and kind of cross-collaboration. And so there's been, I would say, kind of a focus amongst a couple of different, in addition to the public health and safety committee, a couple of different caucuses within the council. So our women's caucus, um, this council term, we are now a majority of the council. We have uh 21 members, and so we're very excited about that. And we also have a very strong minority caucus. And so there was um interest in how can we um really leverage some of that influence. And so the kind of the origin story of all of this effort, um, you know, Benton McDonough was appointed to be uh the director of Nightlife, and we also refer to him as the nightmare, you know, in Davidson County. And so he's been building relationships through his additional job as the beer board director um, you know, for a while with our downtown entertainment kind of corridor. And so when the women's caucus um last year really wanted to start working on some policy initiatives that impact, you know, women and children, one of the opportunities we had was to work with the Sexual Assault Center in Davidson County on um essentially promoting um across the entertainment community the idea that bar owners showed to support the idea of bringing um their employees together to have training on what to look for if someone um has a drink that's spiked and adulterated in any way. And so we had this relationship with the Sexual Assault Center. We had some success, you know, uh working with them to get more bars to facilitate this training. Um, but then we partnered with Benton McDonough uh with his relationships with all of the bar owner uh stakeholders and entertainment groups because of his efforts with the beer board and as the nightmare to really expand that work. So we um kind of cross-collaborated with him, invited him into that conversation. Um, he got to know all the stakeholders and then essentially he and his team kind of helped carry it forward and push it and promote it. And then we also involved our downtown district 19 councilperson, Jacob Koopin. Um, and so that really helped expand that reach. So that's a very long-winded story, but those relationships were really key. And then when um, you know, I think it helps to have people that are um curious um when they see articles um in the paper or on the news, you know, to ask more questions and to seek more information. And Benton is one of those people that looks for more information and how can he assist with, you know, making Nashville more safe. And so um, you know, his attention was caught by substance use issues and of course his insight into the downtown area and those relationships. Essentially, it was a matter of connecting him to the right people. So in this instance, I connected him to Trevor Henderson and then also to Sergeant Mike Hotz with MNPD, who I have gotten to form a relationship with two years ago because of my original kind of interest as the chair on substance use disorder. And so that's a very long-winded story, but basically it was about the right, I would say the right timing, kind of the um making connections, and then people who are curious and want to know how they can kind of support initiatives like this.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

I think there is often probably too much focus on the very far out, especially the federal. And federal is important. I I'm I'll never discredit uh how it's important to maintain at least some. Focus at the federal level. You know, important stuff definitely happens. But I do think local government, especially at the city level, often gets overlooked. Uh, do you do you encounter that often? Do you do you think there might be some concern there?

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Yeah, so it's not local government is not as exciting, I think, from a public perspective as federal or even state government. You know, local government, we're the closest to the people that we serve, literally the closest, you know, because I'm living next door to people that I serve. But, you know, when you think about some of these huge issues, and I'll I'll use like COVID as an example, you know, when we were um navigating like conversations around um vaccinations and everything that went along, you know, with that um pandemic, you know, like I there were times that I was like helping people make vaccination appointments, picking them up, driving them myself, you know, those kinds of things. You know, it's not the kind of service you're gonna get at the state or federal level, but I think that there's a deep connection with local elected officials and to the people that they are trying to help, that there's maybe more of a personal interest in wanting to see people thrive because they're our neighbors. And I think the further that you get away, it's easier to kind of look at like a map or look at a spreadsheet and they're just a number, but really like if I'm seeing people at the grocery store or at the gas station or you know, wherever it is that I'm seeing them, it's like a good reminder that I'm not just having these conversations for the benefit of me or my future interests. I'm having the these conversations because I know that their lives may be impacted by the outcomes, you know, that need to occur or the direction or the strategy, you know, that we take as a city. And so that is something that I think is really powerful. And I don't know, I've never served in Congress. I've never served at the state level. I don't know if those folks feel the same way or if it kind of resonates with them that way. But that's what I think about. It's like, what is the impact of the decision that we're making on the person, you know, that lives in my neighborhood or that lives, you know, in the apartment complex that I drive past on the way to work or, you know, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Oh, that's very well said. So more of a stake and more of just an inherent sense of, well, I mean, I live here too, you know. But uh, not to mention, I'd imagine the responsiveness is better. Yeah, of course, no one will have the opportunity to respond to absolutely everything that comes across their desk, but I would hazard to guess the proportion of responsiveness is is much higher at the local level.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

At the local level, you cannot hide from anyone. I have no staff members. There's there's no barriers between me and the world. And so that can be a great thing. I would say 99% of the time, it's a really great thing that I have that proximity to everybody that I'm working with and have that, to your point, kind of responsiveness, because there's also not that many barriers between me and information, you know, at the local level. Like I know who to call, like with either the health department or the police or fire or, you know, whatever department it is, I have a connection and I can get information relatively quickly compared to at the federal level. You know, they have a lot of staff members, but there's also a lot of staff members, you know, at the uh federal department side. Um, and so there's a lot more to wade through. And so I can get to information quickly. Now, sometimes information is not great or I have to deliver bad inform, you know, news or whatever it is. Um, but at the same time, you you kind of wonder less about the direction. And I can also explain my position a lot easier, I think, than um people at a higher level can because I'm unfiltered and I'm just sharing it like this is what I think, and here's why I vote the way I do, or the things I considered that led me to a vote. Um, and also to be able to get that input from residents directly who want to have a conversation. It's pretty easy to like, let's go meet for coffee and talk, talk this through, or or hear from them at a community meeting and those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

I think it's great that you have that level of engagement with your constituents. Um, I'm also glad you raised the spectrum of COVID. I I did the same with Benton, and it's always uh perhaps there was a concern that having just come out of the era of a lot of people feeling like people were telling them what to do, especially at the business owner level. Um there was definitely a lot of pushback to. We saw this in cities all across this uh not just the state, but the whole country. Uh was there a concern that there might be, oh, here's more of the same, here's more of the government just telling us how to do our thing.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

You know, yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think that that was probably some of the early response um around, you know, that we didn't need to come in with a stick and needed to be a carrot. And of course, you know, I think at their their core, you know, anybody who has a business trying to engage with tourists and residents and they want people to have fun and have a good time, you know, the core of it is they need people to be safe. Um, because if you are a city that gets a reputation as being unsafe, that is a terrible message uh to deliver to the world. And you want people to come to your city, have a good time, and at the same time go home, you know, with memories that you want to remember and be able to share those with your family and friends. And so I think that that was a delicate balance, but I think the message around why this is important, I think really um came through and that it wasn't, it was kind of a shared responsibility. Like we know that this is a problem and people need to be warned with information. So at least they're making decisions that are informed. And so I think that uh, and then if they if they're informed and and they're taking um, you know, something that may negatively impact them, then we at least need to be able to respond to it so that way, you know, they're gonna survive. And so I think that was a message that really um probably resonated with the stakeholders um who likely, you know, some of those folks have experienced overdoses themselves or they have witnessed them or, you know, had to respond to them, you know, on the security end or whatever it is. And so I think uh that's one another reason why it's been received well. It's that relationship, kind of the recognition, you know, that Benton's coming in and he is not trying to put a hammer down. He's trying to appeal to let's all work on this issue together.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

You know, in that same vein, drug checking equipment, and I'm speaking very broadly in an academic sense in that this could be fentanyl test strips, or it could even be in the vein of the safe bars, like those coasters that uh uh contest for the presence of a set of or of a particular class of sedatives like we're hypnal. Um what do you think is the uh uh relationship, at least right now and potentially going forward, of drug checking equipment like fentanyl test strips and the like?

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Yeah, I know that our health department has provided, you know, fentanyl uh test strips and they were looking at xylosine test strips as well. Um I think that those are important tools. And um, so I and it's interesting just because like Sergeant Hot's at MPD. So two years ago, he was trying to get a mass spectrometer, you know, a portable one. So that way when he was in the field, he could uh test, you know, with um investigative scenes and then have an early indicator of what potentially may be creating a spike situation, you know, across the county. And that's one of those pieces of testing equipment. It's pretty restricted, you know, as far as like he was able to get it because of, you know, being a police officer, you know, I know our fire department also has one. It's one of those that I think is a really vital piece of equipment because it helps eliminate some of the barriers to knowing uh information early, early enough to be able to have a conversation across like a city or county stakeholders. And so that's like a super sophisticated piece of equipment. But, you know, at the same time, it's like I think, you know, um health departments having test strips, giving them out to nonprofit organizations, being able to encourage people to use those. And that's also something that SafeBar has provided, you know, as part of the materials that they have, um, is fentanyl test strips as well. Um because I know we we had like a women's caucus had a public meeting and specific to Safebar. And that was one of the things that was included in like here's all your coaster examples and everything else, and fentanyl test strips were included. So I think they're really important to have those things. And I hope that more counties are availing themselves of those options since they were decriminalized to help behavior change to an extent, at least raise awareness that there may be something serious, you know, and something that you're about to take.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

So the bill that does decriminalize uh fentanyl test strips specifically, the language is testing strips designed to test for the presence of a synthetic opioid, which fentanyl and its analogs are. Uh, but that's a very particular definition. It doesn't include xylosine. Xylosine test strips are legal because currently xylosine is not a controlled substance. Right. That could change. Uh, but benzodiazepine test strips, technically legal, and benzos are on the rise. Uh, we see this from our medical examiners around across the state. And I may have already mentioned this, but the law automatically sunsets next summer. So I I I take it that you would like to see that continued.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Yes, definitely. I think if you let the law sunset, what are we gonna do then? We're just gonna be like, okay, when you're dead, we'll test to find out, you know, what drugs you died of. Right. I mean, that's the kind of you know, place that where we are. And so kind of looking at opportunities to reduce kind of the harm to people that may be in a position where they're using substances. And because the goal ultimately, you know, Sergeant Hotz does it so well, like, you know, keeping people alive so that way they can live to then hopefully want to go towards treatment. Um, I think that's really a critical aspect of the work that he does. And, you know, I don't think we can go back to saying you can't use these. That doesn't make any sense to me. And I think it would really be unfortunate if um the law is sunset. And I uh, you know, we'll at our council level, you know, we will try to work, you know, with all the other uh city and county governments to focus on let's make sure that this law doesn't set sunset and that the legislature understands our position because I think that's an important area that we all should put some attention on, you know, when this next legislative session starts.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

Thank you for uh putting the attention on it. I do think it's an important issue. It reminds me of what Dr. Stephen Lloyd, the chair of the opio opioid abatement council, uh says. He himself is a treatment provider. He's I've never figured out how to treat dead people. Right. Like you said, I mean, i if you keep them alive, you they might still be engaging in behavior you don't approve of, but they're not dead yet, and you could still get to them. We are a policy-focused podcast. Uh, we did talk an awful lot of policies so far, but I was wondering uh if there were any other policies at say the city or uh county or state or even federal level uh that you would like to see uh that might uh do more for overdose deaths.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think that um, you know, we've got this focus on one boxes kind of from a private business perspective, you know, which is the area, you know, that um director McDonough is working on with Sergeant Hotz. I think that, you know, as a government, we also need to look at like what is our internal focus on how we're making the lock zone available. You know, we have a health department that gives out doses, you know, there with the health department, you can physically go there, but making sure that that is out in the community. And so we've had some challenges, I would say, in some of our uh government buildings, libraries in particular, because they're becoming like a new kind of the same way that we've put a lot of social issues kind of in the school system. And then from a public perspective, our libraries and our community centers are also getting more engaged in like social issues. And there's some libraries in Davidson County where employees have taken upon themselves to like go out, you know, get trained in how to use naloxone, have carry some with them. It's purely voluntary on their part. Um, but I'd like to see, you know, how Nashville, Davidson County can support the libraries more around some of these issues. Uh, so that way, you know, because I think the challenge of having like the health department, they've only got a couple of locations around the county, but there are libraries all over our county. And so how can we make sure that people have access to things that they need? And also if employees are willing to make sure that they can respond accordingly to somebody that may be struggling, you know, with an overdose issue, you know, how can we support them? Like right now, it's all they're just doing it as one-offs employees that I've talked to. Um, they're just wanting to be prepared because of their experiences at work. And so that's, I think, kind of one of those under the radar issues that we need to look at how are we going to address it? There's I'd like to see one boxes in every metro government building. And I'd like to be, you know, for it to be as routine as like we're checking to see if there's toilet paper in the bathroom stalls. And, you know, we have uh naloxone near, you know, like the hard equipment and things, things like that in our building. So I think normalizing that this is accessible and we want people to live is is really critical. And um, I want our government to be a leader. I think we're a leader in many ways. Um, our behavioral care center and our sheriff's office, you know, they have an eloxone vending machine, um, you know, because they're wanting to make sure anybody leaving the system, you know, who may be opioid naive, that they have access to, you know, a tool that in case they go out and, you know, they they use after they've been in the system, that they don't die just because they've been away from it for such a long time. So anyway, those are all the all the things that I'm thinking about. And we just have been going through our budget conversation. And so our chair substitute budget does have some more funding uh to go towards one boxes. Um, so that way Sergeant Hotz can continue his outreach. And so I think that that's a real victory that uh our committee and our our budget chair kind of recognized the passion that Sergeant Hotz has for this issue, the passion that Benton McDonough has for this issue, and that, you know, willing to help them um continue to do great things and be able to educate more people and engage more people about how to respond and keep folks alive.

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Those are some really excellent uh points. I I think especially about the library. I I volunteered at one in college, and I know exactly what you mean about them becoming uh more and more of a face of addressing social issues at the uh general public level. Is there uh anything else you'd like to add?

SPEAKER_00 38:25

Um I think in general, like if there are any other elected officials out there, always be looking for who you can connect together to see what those relationships will end up looking like. I think, you know, what I struggled with in my first term is feeling like I needed to know how to do everything and how everything worked. And the reality is I don't really need to know all the details. But if I can figure out who the right people are that should know each other or should work together, that is way more powerful than me trying to learn everything about everything, because then I can look for opportunities to support the great work that those combinations of people can do together, as opposed to feeling like I need to be the one to kind of take on the ownership or the onus of feeling like I've got to solve all the problems. And so it's kind of like just get the great people together and then you know, watch them make magic or cook or whatever expression you want to use. Um, but they, you know, that's way that's been, I think, probably the most gratifying part of uh the work that I've been able to do is connect people together and let them go and then figure out how to support them.

SPEAKER_01 39:45

That sounds like effective government to me. Councilmember Evans, thank you very much for joining me on the Smart Policy Podcast. It was a real pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

For more episodes on in-depth discussions on Tennessee policies related to substance use disorder by a range of local experts. Please subscribe to us wherever you get podcasts and visit our website at smart.tennessee.edu. I'm Jeremy Corvillis. Thank you for listening, and see you next month.